Latest revision as of 04:56, 1 April 2015

GlueX Offline Software Meeting
Tuesday, August 10, 2010
2:00 pm EDT
JLab: CEBAF Center F326/7

Agenda

Announcements
1. FAQ exists: Mark
Review of minutes from the last meeting: all
Collaboration meeting offline software agenda: all
HDGEANT auto-smearing: David
- control.in
Anyone know what those warnings are?: all
Action Item Review: all
- Resolved
- Unresolved

Minutes

JLab: Craig Bookwalter, Hovanes Egiyan, Mark Ito, David Lawrence, Yi Qiang, Sascha Somov, Simon Taylor, Beni Zihlmann

Announcements

FAQ: Mark showed the new GlueX Offline FAQ. Right now it is a skeleton. There are two main divisions: GlueX-related and JLab-related. Feel free to add your questions and answers.
gcc 4.4: David announced that it has been installed on the 32-bit farm nodes.

Review of minutes from the last meeting

We went over the minutes from the August 10th meeting.

New release: We are due for a new one. David thought that once a month is a good schedule to keep on.
Data file formats:
- Beni remarked that if we do not agree on a standard file format, then we have given up the idea of the data definition being done in one place and then having that definition quasi-automatically propagated to places where the data is accessed. David answered that that idea could not and should not be implemented in practice in any case, because in that construction the objects in the programs would have to conform to an external data format, and it is the objects that should take precedence in the design of our software.
- Sasha wondered whether we not ought to go to using EVIO exclusively as CLAS12 is planning to do. David wondered why he thought it necessary to have a single data format.
- David argued that the issue of data format is not an issue: no one has complained about it or is trying to work on it. Mark answered that just because no one has complained does not mean that there are not efficiencies and simplifications in software development and maintenance that are worth pursuing.
- Beni remarked that when we get around to writing output files from reconstruction, definition of the format should be tightly controlled and well documented. God-like authority was mentioned.
- Mark thought that we will have to re-raise this issue again in the future.

Collaboration meeting offline software agenda

We discussed talks to be given at the upcoming meeting. The current proposed line-up:

Summary: Mark
Event display: Elliott
Tracking Progress: Simon
TBD: David

In the course of discussion, Sascha suggested a topic for a future offline meeting: the BCAL summing scheme.

HDGEANT auto-smearing

David explained the new feature of HDGEANT that runs mcsmear automatically after events are generated to produced a file with experimental resolution introduced. He guided us through the new section of the "control.in" file that documents the new options.

Warnings in nightly builds

We have been getting emails about these lately. David will look into it.

Action Item Review

We went over the recently resolved items along with those outstanding.

Some other items were suggested. For these, see the next section of these minutes.

New Action Items

Make a new sim-recon release.
Re-raise the issue of data format at a future offline meeting.
Eliminate warnings in nightly builds from experimental code.
Build CERNLIB on MacOS 10.6 (64-bit).
Update tagger hall geometry.

@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 * ESNet: 8542553
 * [http://evo.caltech.edu/ EVO]:
-** Meeting URL: http://evo.caltech.edu/evoGate/koala.jnlp?meeting=eleBevvlvDatasaeIl <!-- link good through 8/10/2010 -->
+** Meeting URL: http://evo.caltech.edu/evoNext/koala.jnlp?meeting=MvM2Ml222tD8Dl999vDe9v
-** Phone Bridge ID: 56083
+** Phone Bridge ID: 2194486
 ===Slides===
-Talks can be deposited in the directory <code>/group/halld/www/halldweb1/html/talks/2010-08</code> on the JLab CUE (you have to be a member of the "halld" Unix group). This directory is accessible from the web at https://halldweb1.jlab.org/talks/2010-08/ .
+Talks can be deposited in the directory <code>/group/halld/www/halldweb/html/talks/2010-08</code> on the JLab CUE (you have to be a member of the "halld" Unix group). This directory is accessible from the web at https://halldweb.jlab.org/talks/2010-08/ .
 =Agenda=
 # Announcements
-## New release, [https://mailman.jlab.org/pipermail/halld-offline/2010-July/000335.html sim-recon-2010-07-28]: Mark
+## [[GlueX Offline FAQ|FAQ]] exists: Mark
-## [https://mailman.jlab.org/pipermail/halld-offline/2010-August/000337.html b1pi analysis in cron job]: Mark
+# Review of [[GlueX Offline Meeting, August 10, 2010#Minutes|minutes from the last meeting]]: all
-# Review of [[GlueX Offline Meeting, July 27, 2010#Minutes|minutes from the last meeting]]: all
+# Collaboration meeting [[GlueX-Collaboration-Sep-2010#Friday_September_10.2C_2010|offline software agenda]]: all
-# [[Media:20100810_fileformat.pdf|Hall-D File Formats]] (David L.)
+# [https://mailman.jlab.org/pipermail/halld-offline/2010-August/000348.html HDGEANT auto-smearing]: David
+#* [http://clasweb.jlab.org/websvn/prod/filedetails.php?repname=GlueX&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fsim-recon%2Fsrc%2Fprograms%2FSimulation%2FHDGeant%2Fcontrol.in control.in]
+# Anyone know what [https://mailman.jlab.org/pipermail/halld-offline/2010-August/000349.html those warnings] are?: all
 # Action Item Review: all
-<!--
+#* [https://halldweb.jlab.org/talks/2010-08/resolved_08-24.html Resolved]
-#* [https://halldweb1.jlab.org/talks/2010-08/recently_resolved_August_10.html Recently resolved]
+#* [https://halldweb.jlab.org/talks/2010-08/unresolved_08-24.html Unresolved]
-#* [https://halldweb1.jlab.org/talks/2010-08/unresolved_August_10.html Unresolved]
--->
 =Minutes=
-'''JLab''': Mark Ito (chair), Richard Jones, David Lawrence, Sascha Somov, Simon Taylor, Beni Zihlmann
+'''JLab''': Craig Bookwalter, Hovanes Egiyan, Mark Ito, David Lawrence, Yi Qiang, Sascha Somov, Simon Taylor, Beni Zihlmann
 ==Announcements==
-* '''New release, sim-recon-2010-07-28'''. Mark mentioned the [https://mailman.jlab.org/pipermail/halld-offline/2010-July/000335.html new release], announced almost two weeks ago. No comments on usability one way or another (no news = good news?).
+# '''FAQ''': Mark showed the new [[GlueX Offline FAQ]]. Right now it is a skeleton. There are two main divisions: GlueX-related and JLab-related. Feel free to add your questions and answers.
-* '''b1pi analysis in cron job'''. Mark showed the plots that are now produced automatically on a weekly basis. They show momentum distributions for positive pions, negative pions, protons and photons as well as angular distributions for the the same set of particles in <math>b_1\pi</math> events. Both the script to do the reconstruction and the ROOT macro to make the plots are from David. Mark asked whether there was sentiment for mailing out the plots to the collaboration for review regularly; there was not. Does not mean that he won't do it anyway.
+# '''gcc 4.4''': David announced that it has been installed on the 32-bit farm nodes.
 ==Review of minutes from the last meeting==
-* '''OSG Toolkit installation'''. The IT Division has still not opened the ports necessary for the OSG client programs to work at the Lab. Mark will ping them on the issue.
+We went over the [[GlueX Offline Meeting, August 24, 2010#Minutes|minutes from the August 10th meeting]].
-* '''Software Workshop'''. David reported that the proposal to the JSA Initiatives Fund for the Software Workshop was submitted. We will have to wait until the first part of November before we hear a response.
-** Richard noted that he has noticed some inconsistencies in the handling of JSA Initiative Fund proposals that include money for experimental equipment.
-* '''Event Display'''. Andrew Blackburn will give an update of his work at the next Online Meeting.
-==Hall-D File Formats==
+* '''New release''': We are due for a new one. David thought that once a month is a good schedule to keep on.
+* '''Data file formats''':
+** Beni remarked that if we do not agree on a standard file format, then we have given up the idea of the data definition being done in one place and then having that definition quasi-automatically propagated to places where the data is accessed. David answered that that idea could not and should not be implemented in practice in any case, because in that construction the objects in the programs would have to conform to an external data format, and it is the objects that should take precedence in the design of our software.
+** Sasha wondered whether we not ought to go to using EVIO exclusively as CLAS12 is planning to do. David wondered why he thought it necessary to have a single data format.
+** David argued that the issue of data format is not an issue: no one has complained about it or is trying to work on it. Mark answered that just because no one has complained does not mean that there are not efficiencies and simplifications in software development and maintenance that are worth pursuing.
+** Beni remarked that when we get around to writing output files from reconstruction, definition of the format should be tightly controlled and well documented. God-like authority was mentioned.
+** Mark thought that we will have to re-raise this issue again in the future.
-David gave a overview of various event file formats, how we are using them, and how we should be using them. See [[Media:20100810_fileformat.pdf|his slides]] for the details. The slide titles were:
+==Collaboration meeting offline software agenda==
-* HDDM
-* XML vs. C++
-* EVIO
-* Banks vs. C++
-* Why make a HDDM to EVIO converter?
-* Why not make hdgeant write out EVIO formatted data?
-* Why File Format is mostly a non-issue
-* Arguments for switching to a single format
-* Hall-D Data Flow
-Discussion was wide ranging and went on for the better part of two hours. We talked about ROOT, C++, JAVA, Service oriented architectures, web services, object persistency, crates, slots, channels, and private jets. The only standard topic omitted was Vaseline®.
+We discussed talks to be given at the upcoming meeting. The current proposed line-up:
-David's position on file formats can be summarized in items from two of his slides:
+# Summary: Mark
-* '''Why file format is mostly a non-issue'''. Two of the bullets in this slide state:
+# Event display: Elliott
-** Most of the software written for Hall-D will be based on C++ objects in memory.
+# Tracking Progress: Simon
-** Framework was designed from day 1 to accommodate multiple formats so that ALL DANA programs would be file format agnostic
+# TBD: David
-* '''Arguments for switching to a single format'''. These are described as falling into two categories, "unsound" and "invalid".
-As long as the objects are the primary things that we need to worry about, a data format needs only express the information that passes from object to object. The important thing is that messages get sent with good fidelity, not so much how they are written. We just need to have front-ends that understand a variety of formats.
+In the course of discussion, Sascha suggested a topic for a future offline meeting: the BCAL summing scheme.
-Mark argued on the other side: that we need to be careful about how event data is expressed outside of running programs or during interprocess communication and further that objects in memory only exist for a short period of time, and are usually difficult to reproduce (weeks, months, years later) in detail. Standardization on a format makes it possible for other tools to be used to analyse the same data using a different set of objects or even a different language. In this view the objects operate on the data and are not the fundamental "things".
+==HDGEANT auto-smearing==
-In summary the conflict is between a data-centric vs. object-centric view. HDDM represents a data-centric view. JANA represents a object-centric view. We did not resolve which philosophy we should adopt as collaboration policy.
+David explained the new feature of HDGEANT that runs mcsmear automatically after events are generated to produced a file with experimental resolution introduced. He guided us through the new section of the [http://clasweb.jlab.org/websvn/prod/filedetails.php?repname=GlueX&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fsim-recon%2Fsrc%2Fprograms%2FSimulation%2FHDGeant%2Fcontrol.in "control.in" file] that documents the new options.
+==Warnings in nightly builds==
+We have been getting emails about these lately. David will look into it.
+==Action Item Review==
+We went over the [https://halldweb.jlab.org/talks/2010-08/resolved_08-24.html recently resolved items] along with [https://halldweb.jlab.org/talks/2010-08/unresolved_08-24.html those outstanding].
+Some other items were suggested. For these, see the next section of these minutes.
 ==New Action Items==
-# Ping IT Division on Globus ports -> Mark
+# Make a new sim-recon release.
+# Re-raise the issue of data format at a future offline meeting.
+# Eliminate warnings in nightly builds from experimental code.
+# Build CERNLIB on MacOS 10.6 (64-bit).
+# Update tagger hall geometry.

Difference between revisions of "GlueX Offline Meeting, August 24, 2010"

Latest revision as of 04:56, 1 April 2015

Contents

Telephone

Video Conferencing

Slides

Agenda

Minutes

Announcements

Review of minutes from the last meeting

Collaboration meeting offline software agenda

HDGEANT auto-smearing

Warnings in nightly builds

Action Item Review

New Action Items

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