Difference between revisions of "Minutes-7-26-2012"

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(Agenda)
(Cathode corrosion)
 
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#* Status [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_10.27.55.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_11.21.18.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_11.21.41.jpg],  [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_11.27.58.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_11.28.04.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.10.57.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.11.11.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.25.14.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.25.18.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.29.27.jpg],[http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.31.57.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.32.12.jpg]  
 
#* Status [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_10.27.55.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_11.21.18.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_11.21.41.jpg],  [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_11.27.58.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_11.28.04.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.10.57.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.11.11.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.25.14.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.25.18.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.29.27.jpg],[http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.31.57.jpg], [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/pictures/2012-07-23_15.32.12.jpg]  
 
#* Microscope results
 
#* Microscope results
#* Testing chamber
+
#* Testing chambers
# Production [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/production/FDC_Construction_July_19_2012.xlsx Construction Tracking] (Dave)
+
# Production (Dave)
 
#* Extra cathode production
 
#* Extra cathode production
 
#* Second package refurbishment
 
#* Second package refurbishment
#* Grounding scheme (Vlad)
+
#* [http://www.jlab.org/Hall-D/detector/fdc/general/Grounding_scheme.pdf Grounding scheme] (Vlad)
 
# Engineering (Bill)
 
# Engineering (Bill)
 
# Electronics (Chris, Nick)
 
# Electronics (Chris, Nick)
# Gas system (Beni, Bill)
+
# Gas system (Beni)
 
# Test set-up in 126 (Beni)
 
# Test set-up in 126 (Beni)
 
# Other
 
# Other
 
<!--
 
  
 
= Minutes =
 
= Minutes =
  
Participants: Bill, Dave, Eugene, Nick, Chris, Simon, Beni, Vlad, and Lubomir
+
Participants: Fernando, Bill, Eugene, Dave, Nick, Chris, Simon, Beni, Vlad, and Lubomir
  
== Production ==
+
== Cathode corrosion ==
  
- The wire frames that are not installed yet are listed in the Construction Tracking (page 1) linked above. We need two wire frames to finish package #4. Frame #2 is ok but has been deadened with 6cm diameter which is for the first two packages. #28 can be used, initially the dark current was higher but went down to 350nA. #3 could be the other candidate but the current increased after two days of testing, will continue with the tests over the weekend.
+
- After opening the first package for refurbishment last Friday we found imprints on the copper (many pictures linked above) corresponding to the two sides of the O-ring (EPDM). We tested the resistance between the strips and the output connectors and it turned out that all of the cathodes had about 50% of the channels with a resistance higher than 100 Ohms. Bill took samples from one cathode, both copper and O-rings. Pictures with optical microscope showed that some kind of corrosion has started and at some places along these traces the copper was removed completely. Also some flakes (maybe copper) are visible on the O-ring. See pictures at:  /u/group/halld_engineering/FDC/cathode\ corrosion (Linux) or  M:\halld_engineering\FDC\cathode corrosion (Windows), and in the subdirectories there. First package was tested from January to June in 126 EEL. Right before moving it to Blue Crab, Vlad tested all the cathodes with a 55Fe source and a scope (except for the bottom cell, not accessible with the source) and all the channel were working fine showing similar signals. Fernando explained that if the resistance is increased the signals would be longer (same total charge) and Vlad would have seen it.
  
- All these chambers show elevated dark current, maybe due to the same reason. On one of them (#6), on one HV sector (#1) we removed the current limiting resistors that connect the sense wires to the HV board: the dark current remain almost the same. We concluded that the current leakage is on the HV board, and more precisely on the positive HV trace. This trace has a section running on the back side which we suspect is causing the problem due to proximity to the Rohacell and the gold plated area on the back of the board. End of October 2011 we found that these traces are causing noise on the strips and we started coating them with conformal coating.  
+
- We immediately opened the second package: only the top cathode was severely damaged while the rest were either without bad channels, or only with a few. After completely testing the second package at the beginning of the year, it was put aside with closed gas connections (no gas flushing) and was always at Blue Crab. Some traces corresponding to the O-ring are visible also on the two type-3 cathodes of the first production cell which we tested at 126 in the summer of 2011 for about 3-4 weeks. No traces are visible on the cathodes of the full-scale prototype. It's different from the production packages that it didn't have deadened area; therefore the deadening is the main suspect so far. Another observation is some discoloration of the copper on those cathodes that are facing the top of the wire frames, the pattern follows exactly the shape of the epoxy (Epon) that holds the wires. Most of us think it's not related to the corrosion problem, we used exactly the same epoxy in the full-scale prototype, except there was longer time between building the wire frames and installing them in the package. For the first production cell tests the wire frame was built with Epolite.
  
- Several options were considered: 1) put #28 and #3 in the fourth package and finish it, 2) try to fix two of the boards and use them in the fourth package, 3) wait for the spare parts and build four new wire frames and use two of them in the fourth package. So far we excluded option #1. Since 2) and 3) will take time we decided to close the fourth package with four cells, take it out of the installation fixture and put there the first package for refurbishment (we did all this right after the meeting).  
+
- Olga looked at the samples with electron microscope and found substantial amount of sulfur! She made measurements at 9 different places (look at the  "SEM scan of foil 7-25-2012" subdirectory) starting from outside the gas volume (1) then at the outer trace (2-6), in between the traces (7), at the inner trace (8) and inside the gas volume (9). One sees high amounts of sulfur inside the gas volume and at the traces, but almost nothing in between the traces or outside of the gas volume. Sulfur may come from the electroplating procedure which uses copper sulfate water solution, or possibly from the EPDM materials, there's a paper reporting damages on the copper from the EPDM.  
  
- One way to fix the trace (Bill) is to cut the wire frame from the back in the Rohacell region ( Casey has done this once), another way (Dave) is to bypass the trace on the back side and make cable connection on the top. We decided to go with the later, but for that we have to mill a niche at the O-ring position for the wire and glue it there. Bill will work on the tooling to do this operation.
+
- Long discussions and many hypotheses explaining different features of the above observations.  Fernando: sulfur may react with a gas coming from the EPDM (explains the place of the corrosion). Bill: EPDM leaks, creating flow of some gas containing sulfur that is deposited there. Lubomir: all the packages were tested cell by cell but installing the same cathode on the top. For the second package this cathode never showed problems during the tests, but was severely damaged when we opened it several months later. Therefore it's possible the corrosion started developing later when the packages were not connected to the gas, say due to the moisture in combination with the sulfur deposited somehow inside the chamber.
 +
 
 +
- We already started a test with the testing chamber in the following configuration: Lexan sheet, spacer ring with Viton and Apiezon, new cathode type-2, wire frame #27 (7.8cm deadened area) with Viton and Apiezon, spacer ring with EPDM, cathode type-1 with EPDM (from the second package but the dark traces at the O-ring were covered we new foil at many places), and Lexan on the top. HV was applied on 07/25 and we will wait for about a month before opening it to look for corrosion effects comparing EPDM and Viton. At the same time we will start tests with an old prototype, Simon's chamber. It's small and hopefully we can get results faster. The plan is to replace the wires using our technology and deaden them, then again to mount EPDM at one side Viton O-ring at the other side, and test it under HV. Eugene proposed also to do tests with high intensity radioactive source. Eugene required to prepare a document describing the tests.
  
- Third package: labels are put on the pre-amps and installed on the package. Vlad is working on the grounding positions. He marked the places for the grounding on several cells. At some places one ground strip will connect two or three cells. At one location per cell the grounding has to be split, at one place the big clip will be put and at another place, close to that, the other clip. Vlad is working on a measuring tool to record the angles of the grounding places to be used by the techs.
+
== Production ==
 
+
== Engineering update ==  
+
 
+
- Bill submitted a PR for the four extra g10 wire frames. He got also an estimate for four thick (35mm) spacer rings (model drawings linked above), each $730, the only parts needed to proof the principle of the helium drift chamber. Since some engineering/drafting work is needed to submit the drawings, Eugene said we will do it later in the year when we start testing the spare package.   
+
 
+
- Bill once more explained the cooling system using the schematics and model drawing also link above. Answering Beni's question, Bill: we have an interlock system using the flow switches and RTDs through the slow control. In the heat exchanger the pressure of the water will be less than the pressure of the Fluorinert; if the latter leaks it will be detected looking at the level of the Fluorinert tank. 
+
 
+
== Electronics update ==
+
 
+
- Chris: The contract for the four sets of PCBs was awarded to another company, Accurate Circuit Engineering, saving a lot of money. The delivery date is 08/02. Some concerns if the boards will be as good as those that we have.
+
 
+
== Gas system update ==
+
 
+
- Beni about the organic gas and aging: everybody avoids using methane (CH4). Several mechanism resulting in the Molter effect, insulating deposits on the wires. Radiation tests (up to ~0.3 C/cm) of the CMS drift chambers using Ar/CO2/ethane: no degradation in the performance, but found some deposits on the wires. Both Hall A and Hall C use ethane in their gas mixtures bubbled through alcohol.
+
 
+
- Bill asked if it is OK to use PET-G (material used for water bottles) pipes inside the magnet to lower the material (it has thin walls). Lubomir showed results from the CERN gas detector group studying the outgassing of different pipe materials; PET-G is not there. Eugene: we better use materials that are proven to be OK; polypropylene is the most likely choice.
+
  
- Lubomir on the advantages of using ethane or isobutane (same slides were discussed in the tracking meeting): if we need higher gains to improve the resolution, these gases offer that at much lower HV also suppressing after-pulses. Eugene: in Hall A the chambers (at BigBite) are very similar, sense and field wires with copper cathodes, they have been using ethane at much higher rates. Therefore, for the FDC it will be safe to use ethane, CDC has aluminum in the cathodes, so it's another story.
+
- In one hand, we have 13 cathodes with, say 30-70% of the channels having resistance higher than 100 Ohms; these are all the cathodes from the first package and the top from the second. The rest 11 cathodes of the second package: 4 are OK, 5 have one channel above 100Ohms, 2 have 4-7 bad channels. In the other hand we have 8 spare cathodes and spare foils that we can use to build 14 new cathodes, in total 22 cathodes. The plan is to use first the spare
 +
cathodes while building new cathodes at the same time. For that we need also cathode frames and daughter cards. Casey already proofed on one type-1 damaged cathode that we can remove the daughter cards and the foil from the frame. We should try the same also with type-2 cathode and then build new cathodes using the old frames and daughter cards. If this is successful, we can continue building new cathodes, if not we will have to order also new frames/daughter cards, Fernando says they are not expensive.  
  
== Test set-up at 126 ==
+
- We discussed briefly if we can start stacking the second package, basically we have the parts ready for three cells, siting on tables. Everybody preferred to wait for more results from the electron microscope and from the testing, but since it may take a month or two, we agreed we can stack three cell without tightening the package for now.
  
- Beni about the DAQ: Bryan is working with Cody to fix the Linux libraries, some issues with the timing of the Linux ROCs and the fADC125. The problem is not in the Beni's code or CODA light.
+
- Many questions remain unanswered, some of them urgent, like do we want to clean (and using what chemical?) the cathodes from the second package to prevent further corrosion. We decided to flush the third and forth package with Nitrogen, although we haven't seen problems there.  
 +
 +
== Other ==
  
-->
+
Due to the long discussion we had to stop at this point. Vlad has prepared an Excel file describing the grounding scheme which is linked for those interested.

Latest revision as of 18:26, 27 July 2012

July 26, 2012 FDC meeting

Agenda

  1. Cathode corrosion
  2. Production (Dave)
  3. Engineering (Bill)
  4. Electronics (Chris, Nick)
  5. Gas system (Beni)
  6. Test set-up in 126 (Beni)
  7. Other

Minutes

Participants: Fernando, Bill, Eugene, Dave, Nick, Chris, Simon, Beni, Vlad, and Lubomir

Cathode corrosion

- After opening the first package for refurbishment last Friday we found imprints on the copper (many pictures linked above) corresponding to the two sides of the O-ring (EPDM). We tested the resistance between the strips and the output connectors and it turned out that all of the cathodes had about 50% of the channels with a resistance higher than 100 Ohms. Bill took samples from one cathode, both copper and O-rings. Pictures with optical microscope showed that some kind of corrosion has started and at some places along these traces the copper was removed completely. Also some flakes (maybe copper) are visible on the O-ring. See pictures at: /u/group/halld_engineering/FDC/cathode\ corrosion (Linux) or M:\halld_engineering\FDC\cathode corrosion (Windows), and in the subdirectories there. First package was tested from January to June in 126 EEL. Right before moving it to Blue Crab, Vlad tested all the cathodes with a 55Fe source and a scope (except for the bottom cell, not accessible with the source) and all the channel were working fine showing similar signals. Fernando explained that if the resistance is increased the signals would be longer (same total charge) and Vlad would have seen it.

- We immediately opened the second package: only the top cathode was severely damaged while the rest were either without bad channels, or only with a few. After completely testing the second package at the beginning of the year, it was put aside with closed gas connections (no gas flushing) and was always at Blue Crab. Some traces corresponding to the O-ring are visible also on the two type-3 cathodes of the first production cell which we tested at 126 in the summer of 2011 for about 3-4 weeks. No traces are visible on the cathodes of the full-scale prototype. It's different from the production packages that it didn't have deadened area; therefore the deadening is the main suspect so far. Another observation is some discoloration of the copper on those cathodes that are facing the top of the wire frames, the pattern follows exactly the shape of the epoxy (Epon) that holds the wires. Most of us think it's not related to the corrosion problem, we used exactly the same epoxy in the full-scale prototype, except there was longer time between building the wire frames and installing them in the package. For the first production cell tests the wire frame was built with Epolite.

- Olga looked at the samples with electron microscope and found substantial amount of sulfur! She made measurements at 9 different places (look at the "SEM scan of foil 7-25-2012" subdirectory) starting from outside the gas volume (1) then at the outer trace (2-6), in between the traces (7), at the inner trace (8) and inside the gas volume (9). One sees high amounts of sulfur inside the gas volume and at the traces, but almost nothing in between the traces or outside of the gas volume. Sulfur may come from the electroplating procedure which uses copper sulfate water solution, or possibly from the EPDM materials, there's a paper reporting damages on the copper from the EPDM.

- Long discussions and many hypotheses explaining different features of the above observations. Fernando: sulfur may react with a gas coming from the EPDM (explains the place of the corrosion). Bill: EPDM leaks, creating flow of some gas containing sulfur that is deposited there. Lubomir: all the packages were tested cell by cell but installing the same cathode on the top. For the second package this cathode never showed problems during the tests, but was severely damaged when we opened it several months later. Therefore it's possible the corrosion started developing later when the packages were not connected to the gas, say due to the moisture in combination with the sulfur deposited somehow inside the chamber.

- We already started a test with the testing chamber in the following configuration: Lexan sheet, spacer ring with Viton and Apiezon, new cathode type-2, wire frame #27 (7.8cm deadened area) with Viton and Apiezon, spacer ring with EPDM, cathode type-1 with EPDM (from the second package but the dark traces at the O-ring were covered we new foil at many places), and Lexan on the top. HV was applied on 07/25 and we will wait for about a month before opening it to look for corrosion effects comparing EPDM and Viton. At the same time we will start tests with an old prototype, Simon's chamber. It's small and hopefully we can get results faster. The plan is to replace the wires using our technology and deaden them, then again to mount EPDM at one side Viton O-ring at the other side, and test it under HV. Eugene proposed also to do tests with high intensity radioactive source. Eugene required to prepare a document describing the tests.

Production

- In one hand, we have 13 cathodes with, say 30-70% of the channels having resistance higher than 100 Ohms; these are all the cathodes from the first package and the top from the second. The rest 11 cathodes of the second package: 4 are OK, 5 have one channel above 100Ohms, 2 have 4-7 bad channels. In the other hand we have 8 spare cathodes and spare foils that we can use to build 14 new cathodes, in total 22 cathodes. The plan is to use first the spare cathodes while building new cathodes at the same time. For that we need also cathode frames and daughter cards. Casey already proofed on one type-1 damaged cathode that we can remove the daughter cards and the foil from the frame. We should try the same also with type-2 cathode and then build new cathodes using the old frames and daughter cards. If this is successful, we can continue building new cathodes, if not we will have to order also new frames/daughter cards, Fernando says they are not expensive.

- We discussed briefly if we can start stacking the second package, basically we have the parts ready for three cells, siting on tables. Everybody preferred to wait for more results from the electron microscope and from the testing, but since it may take a month or two, we agreed we can stack three cell without tightening the package for now.

- Many questions remain unanswered, some of them urgent, like do we want to clean (and using what chemical?) the cathodes from the second package to prevent further corrosion. We decided to flush the third and forth package with Nitrogen, although we haven't seen problems there.

Other

Due to the long discussion we had to stop at this point. Vlad has prepared an Excel file describing the grounding scheme which is linked for those interested.